Pink Pistols Forum

General Category => Guns 'n Gear => Topic started by: Beaarthur5 on August 24, 2017, 03:14:25 PM

Title: Friendly Dealers
Post by: Beaarthur5 on August 24, 2017, 03:14:25 PM
Hi all. I'm looking to buy a gun for home protection and have gotten some good advice and practice at my local range. I'm wondering if folks can recommend some LGBT friendly (?Online) dealers. everytime I do an internet search I get completely turned off my the rhetoric on most sites. thanks
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: Douglas on August 24, 2017, 04:37:57 PM
visit your local gun shop?

online gun stores are pretty much extensions of brick and mortar gun shops. 

not sure what  you expect to find online.  you'll still need a local shop to have your selected gun sent to for transfer.  and there are fees for this service.  or you could just visit your local gun shop, see what they have in hand, and if they do not have what you are looking for, i'll bet they will order it for you.
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: Beaarthur5 on August 29, 2017, 12:05:11 AM
Sorry if I wasn't specific. what I meant is: how does one buy a gun and ammo and find a shooting range without directly supporting the NRA as gun manufacturers and most ranges give the NRA a % of their profits and I'm not interested in supporting the racist, homophobic, misogynist agenda of NRA, not even a little bit.
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: HuckleberryFun on August 29, 2017, 07:43:41 AM
As far as ranges go, there will almost always be one or more non-membership "pay as you go" ranges in your area. Gun shops each have their own "vibe," with some being manned by hard-core overtly conservative "Red Hats" and others being apolitical: just look around. Or else join an online gun forum like the Liberal Gun Club or a online service like Gunbroker.com and buy used directly from another gun owner.
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: Douglas on August 29, 2017, 10:39:51 AM
Sorry if I wasn't specific. what I meant is: how does one buy a gun and ammo and find a shooting range without directly supporting the NRA as gun manufacturers and most ranges give the NRA a % of their profits and I'm not interested in supporting the racist, homophobic, misogynist agenda of NRA, not even a little bit.

i'm tired of this.

i'm a lifetime NRA member, have offered my free services on Operation Blazing Sword, and am not any of the smears you list above.

you cannot provide a single example of the NRA doing any of the above things.  the NRA does not discriminate based on race, based on sexual orientation, based on gender.  it doesn't exist.  so if you are looking for a non-NRA NRA, maybe you should start one and see how things go.

as for gun makers, gun shops, and ranges giving the NRA some percentage of their profits, people are free to do what they want with their money.  the NRA does not tax their members or gun makers or gun shops or ranges.  free people freely give what they want to causes they support.  just as you give money to things you support.

my offer stands:  if you want to learn the basics of shooting a pistol, i'll take you to the range free.  but i'm tired of being called things that I am not.

you will have a tough time in life beginning a conversation with someone else by insulting them with no basis.

in every gun shop I've ever been to, they want to sell you guns and gear that you want.  that's it.  they don't care how you are dressed, what you think, what you do outside of the gun shop.  do you have the same attitude when you shop for groceries?

end of rant.  good luck in your search for a good gun and gear.
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: gerhard1 on August 29, 2017, 07:37:33 PM
Sorry if I wasn't specific. what I meant is: how does one buy a gun and ammo and find a shooting range without directly supporting the NRA as gun manufacturers and most ranges give the NRA a % of their profits and I'm not interested in supporting the racist, homophobic, misogynist agenda of NRA, not even a little bit.

i'm tired of this.

i'm a lifetime NRA member, have offered my free services on Operation Blazing Sword, and am not any of the smears you list above.

you cannot provide a single example of the NRA doing any of the above things.  the NRA does not discriminate based on race, based on sexual orientation, based on gender.  it doesn't exist.  so if you are looking for a non-NRA NRA, maybe you should start one and see how things go.

as for gun makers, gun shops, and ranges giving the NRA some percentage of their profits, people are free to do what they want with their money.  the NRA does not tax their members or gun makers or gun shops or ranges.  free people freely give what they want to causes they support.  just as you give money to things you support.

my offer stands:  if you want to learn the basics of shooting a pistol, i'll take you to the range free.  but i'm tired of being called things that I am not.

you will have a tough time in life beginning a conversation with someone else by insulting them with no basis.

in every gun shop I've ever been to, they want to sell you guns and gear that you want.  that's it.  they don't care how you are dressed, what you think, what you do outside of the gun shop.  do you have the same attitude when you shop for groceries?

end of rant.  good luck in your search for a good gun and gear.
Agreed 100%. I don't see any of these things in the NRA.

To the OP, what evidence do you have to support what you say?
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: Douglas on September 01, 2017, 10:31:11 AM
after 3 days, likely none.

but throwing around insults and smears with no basis in fact is easy, lets you be part of the "cool" crowd, and requires no facts or reason or thought.

i'm shooting a match tomorrow.  anyone else hitting the range?
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: gerhard1 on September 01, 2017, 05:49:27 PM
after 3 days, likely none.

but throwing around insults and smears with no basis in fact is easy, lets you be part of the "cool" crowd, and requires no facts or reason or thought.

i'm shooting a match tomorrow.  anyone else hitting the range?
I wonder how that is being cool.  Probably the same way that a person who has never met me says quite dogmatically on the Kansas forum that I'd be better if I used his choice of 'efficient' equipment.

I'm shooting my Walther PPK/s a lot more now that we can get 22 rounds, so I might.  It depends on what the weather does.  Nothing formal, you understand;  I just have a few pizza boxes that need killing. I got back home a few minutes ago from Stilllwater where I had lunch with my girlfriend and her mom, and stopped at the WallyWord in Ponca City, picking up 1,000 rounds.
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: Douglas on September 01, 2017, 05:57:21 PM
monthly IDPA match (well first of 2 this month), shooting my 92G Beretta 9mm.  sweet pistol.

i've never been cool.  always sounded like you had to give up part of yourself to fit into their idea of "right".  that sounded wrong.
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: Richadeto on September 16, 2017, 12:15:34 AM
Excellent, never seen before.
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: sos24 on January 22, 2018, 11:40:16 PM
Sorry if I wasn't specific. what I meant is: how does one buy a gun and ammo and find a shooting range without directly supporting the NRA as gun manufacturers and most ranges give the NRA a % of their profits and I'm not interested in supporting the racist, homophobic, misogynist agenda of NRA, not even a little bit.

I am curious to know what you are basing your description of the NRA’s agenda on, because it sounds like it is directly from the anti-gun Democrat rhetoric that is frequently spouted and not supported by what I’ve seen from the NRA.

The NRA’s agenda is the preservation of gun rights.  Because of that single focus, there are all sorts of people who will support them, many who may have questionable opinions on other stances.  Because of that agenda, the NRA is going to support the political candidate that most supports gun rights and the second amendment, which frequently means the Republican who may not be LGBT friendly.  The NRA or members of the NRA may or may not agree with the other positions of those candidates, but those stances are not what the NRA is focused on.  If their was a Democratic candidate who was hispanic lesbian or black transexual and fully supported gun rights then the NRA would most likely support them but that is highly unlikely in today’s partisan political climate.

One of the NRA’s lead spokes people is a woman and another spokesperson is black.  Many videos, shows, etc from the NRA are trying to show how frequently the anti-gun agenda has racist roots is contrary to protecting women and other minorities.  Unfortunately, though many just believe what they want to believe. 

Because the NRA supports the rights of individuals and corporations whose livelihood depends on gun those people and businesses are going to support the NRA.  You will be hard pressed to find a gun manufacturer, seller, range, gun accessory company that does not support the NRA because of the work they do for gun rights.

If you knew all the political opinions of many corporations, CEOs, stockholders, etc of companies whose products you use in your daily life you might not want to support them either, but that is why most don’t take official public stances.
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: HotheadPaisan on January 30, 2018, 02:55:17 PM
Uhhhh...

https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2016/06/16/20-plus-years-anti-gay-hate-nra/210994

This may be a question of INDIVIDUALS who also happen to be NRA members being homophobic. Of course, not all NRA members are homophobes--my cousins, for example. And some NRA members are LGBTQ.

But given the organization's track record... not to mention its Riefenstahl-esque propaganda ads on YT with Dana Loesch, not to mention the FEC investigation about Russian donors, not to mention the stranglehold the NRA has on gun dealers.... you might want to concede the point.

Given the NRA's current way of doing business and its utter devotion to portraying fellow Americans as the enemy, and by implication targeting them literally, I have zero interest in supporting them until they get rid of their sleazy leader and their majority-non-elected-non-democratic board. Yes, they made great training materials. Yes, they advocate for the 2nd Amendment. But they do a helluva lot more than that:

They use their media to assassinate real news. They use their schools to teach their children that their president is another Hitler. They use their movie stars and comedy shows and award shows to repeat their narrative over and over again. And then they use their ex-president to endorse the resistance — all to make them march, make them protest, make them scream ‘racism,’ and ‘sexism,’ and ‘xenophobia’ and ‘homophobia,’ to smash windows, burn cars, shut down interstates and airports, bully and terrorize the law abiding until the only option left is for the police to do their jobs and stop the madness. And when that happens they’ll use it as an excuse for their outrage. The only way we stop this, the only way we save our country and our freedom, is to fight this violence of lies with the clenched fist of truth. I am the National Rifle Association of America, and I’m freedom’s safest place.”

And I'm the descendant of multiple Revolutionary War soldiers and my family has served this country honorably in every armed conflict, so I'll go with not fomenting civil war and spreading hate speech through Propaganda 101 tricks to prime the pump.

Especially under the current situation with Russian meddling.

These NRA ads are over the top, inflammatory, and perfect examples of the kind of divide-and-conquer wedge politics that Putin is serving up to as many demographics as possible right now. I hope folks get smart and see this for what it is.
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: Douglas on January 30, 2018, 06:07:10 PM
you must have missed this:

http://forum.pinkpistols.org/index.php?topic=394.0
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: HotheadPaisan on January 30, 2018, 07:47:18 PM
No, I had seen it. And that has zero to do with homophobic attitudes among NRA members.

I’m sure, though, that their ad agency will find a suitable Dana Lezz or Colion Queer to speak “on behalf of” LGBTQ gun owners.

Seriously, if you’re happy with the NRA, by all means enjoy. I prefer alternatives. The organization is not about 2A as much as it is about making money. And its leadership is about darker things not in the national interest, in my opinion.

As I understand it, only 2 of 70-something board members are elected by the rank and file; the rest are industry stakeholders. And the majority surveyed favor reasonable gun control. Yet the leadership preaches the slippery-slope fallacy that any reasonable regulation is a violation of 2A.

That’s a hot mess I don’t want to support.

Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: Douglas on January 30, 2018, 10:43:39 PM
Your ignorance of the NRA is astounding.
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: Douglas on January 31, 2018, 10:53:39 AM
No, I had seen it. And that has zero to do with homophobic attitudes among NRA members.

I’m sure, though, that their ad agency will find a suitable Dana Lezz or Colion Queer to speak “on behalf of” LGBTQ gun owners.

Seriously, if you’re happy with the NRA, by all means enjoy. I prefer alternatives. The organization is not about 2A as much as it is about making money. And its leadership is about darker things not in the national interest, in my opinion.

As I understand it, only 2 of 70-something board members are elected by the rank and file; the rest are industry stakeholders. And the majority surveyed favor reasonable gun control. Yet the leadership preaches the slippery-slope fallacy that any reasonable regulation is a violation of 2A.

That’s a hot mess I don’t want to support.

now that i have a little more time to type, i'll take these one at a time.

"And that has zero to do with homophobic attitudes among NRA members." - can you provide specific examples?  names, words, actions of individuals?  not just wave your hand in the direction of a bunch of "rednecks" or "southerners" and smear them all with an unearned insult that has not basis in fact.  doubt you can.  and if you can provide an example or two, that does not extend to the rest of the NRA membership without specific knowledge or each person you so wish to smear.

"Seriously, if you’re happy with the NRA, by all means enjoy. I prefer alternatives. The organization is not about 2A as much as it is about making money. And its leadership is about darker things not in the national interest, in my opinion." - the only thing the NRA is about is the 2A.  they say it boldly, over and over.  any money that the NRA "makes" goes towards defending the NRA. they hand out grants for shooting range development and improvement, they develop and provide training materials, they host various shooting competitions.  and i'm sure other things i'm not aware of.  as for the leadership, have you ever spoken with any of them?  what spoken or written materials can you cite that support your "darker things" smear?  none.  you are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to an opinion with no basis in fact.  i signed up long ago on Blazing Sword to provide anyone, anyone with free basic gun training.  won't cost you a dime.  so far, no takers in 18 months.  offer stands.  and that's from an NRA Life Member.  someone you think hates everyone not like him.  nice.

"As I understand it, only 2 of 70-something board members are elected by the rank and file; the rest are industry stakeholders. And the majority surveyed favor reasonable gun control. Yet the leadership preaches the slippery-slope fallacy that any reasonable regulation is a violation of 2A. " - there are 75 NRA board members, each serve a 3 year term, unpaid, with 25 positions expiring each year.  NRA members vote for board members each year.  I vote.  anyone can run for board membership, in compliance with the bylaws (available from the NRA if you ask).  Many board members are also active in the gun industry. duh.  they too want to protect the 2A from attack.  the NRA has never asked me, a long time Life Member, what i think about "reasonable gun control".  nor has anyone else.  and if you did, i'd ask you to define what you have in mind with "reasonable gun control" before i answer such a vague question.  As for "slippery slope fallacy", the NRA steadfastly defends the 2A.  propose what you think a "reasonable regulation" is, and we can discuss it.

so if you, or anyone else, wants to go shooting, i'll take you, at my entire cost, and we'll have a good time at the range, and hopefully, you'll learn something that day.
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: gerhard1 on February 20, 2018, 08:54:25 PM
No, I had seen it. And that has zero to do with homophobic attitudes among NRA members.

I’m sure, though, that their ad agency will find a suitable Dana Lezz or Colion Queer to speak “on behalf of” LGBTQ gun owners.

Seriously, if you’re happy with the NRA, by all means enjoy. I prefer alternatives. The organization is not about 2A as much as it is about making money. And its leadership is about darker things not in the national interest, in my opinion.

As I understand it, only 2 of 70-something board members are elected by the rank and file; the rest are industry stakeholders. And the majority surveyed favor reasonable gun control. Yet the leadership preaches the slippery-slope fallacy that any reasonable regulation is a violation of 2A.

That’s a hot mess I don’t want to support.
Usually the 'slippery-slope' or 'camel's nose' argument is a logical fallacy; I agree with you there.  However, in the case of gun-control, it is not.  Why not?  Because the advocates of stricter gun laws say this themslevs.


Quote
"I'm convinced that we have to have federal legislation to build on. We're going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily -- given the political realities -- going to be very modest. Of course, it's true that politicians will then go home and say, 'This is a great law. The problem is solved.' And it's also true that such statements will tend to defuse the gun-control issue for a time. So then we'll have to strengthen that law, and then again to strengthen that law, and maybe again and again. Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice. Our ultimate goal -- total control of handguns in the United States -- is going to take time. My estimate is from seven to ten years. The problem is to slow down the increasing number of handguns sold in this country. The second problem is to get them all registered. And the final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition -- except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors -- totally illegal."
Nelson P. 'Pete' Shields, founder of Handgun Control, Inc.   The New Yorker, July 26, 1976
Quote
“In fact, the assault weapons ban will have no significant effect either on the crime rate or on personal security. Nonetheless, it is a good idea . . . . Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation.”
Charles Krauthammer (columnist), Washington Post, Apr. 5, 1996

Also, for your edification:
i'm not aware of any NRA position that even speaks about gays.

I don't know if they have an official policy statement, but they do have Chris Cheng (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Cheng) as a national spokesperson.

Chris Cheng is a member of the Pink Pistols. I've talked with him, he's a seriously hoopy frood. He knows where his towel is and EVERYTHING. He was one of the winners on the Top Shot TV series, and now he's an NRA spokesperson.


I'm going to chime in here. Not everyone in the shooting world is crazy about the NRA. But the claims that it's packed with homophobes slavering to kill us all or something is simply nonsense. I'm good friends with one of the chief legislative counsels at NRA-ILA. We do good work together, and he swears up and down that the ancient incidents of anti-gay rhetoric are long gone, and there's NOTHING in their POLICY that is in any way anti-gay.

Oh, and Uncle Ted Nugent has called me "his favorite lesbian" TWICE on the radio. I got the recording to prove it. And he's on their BOARD.


As for "progressive gun manufacturers"...seriously, that's a non-starter. The progressives want to amend the Constitution to take away the 2nd Amendment completely. The progressives want to put a prog in the Supreme Court so they can overturn Heller and McDonald. This isn't speculation. Their candidates have SAID SO. Repeatedly. On the record.

So why would a gun manufacturer support them? It'd be like a Torah publisher donating to Stormfront, or a game food store donating to PETA. It's against their interests. If you're waiting to buy a gun from a progressive manufacturer, you're going to be waiting a long time. So take the advice, buy a gun, and use it wisely and responsibly. Don't worry about the politics. Behave as YOUR beliefs require you to behave, and don't worry so much about the other guy.
I do hope that doing that was kosher, but my (and presumably that of Douglas as well) point  is that this does not sound like the NRA is homophobic.
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: Douglas on February 21, 2018, 01:25:09 PM
i stand by every word i've typed or spoken.

i'm a Lifetime Benefactor NRA Member.  they do not tell me what to say or think.  i speak for myself.

i've been a NRA Member since the mid 1980s, and have read their American Rifleman every month since then (and some before I joined, as I would read my dad's magazines), and i have never read anything against gays, blacks, women, or any other group.  as i've posted elsewhere here, just last October Pete Brownell posted  in his President's column on how gun rights are rights for all.  you can google it and find it and read it for yourself.

this morning i read Erin Pallette's (sp?) FB post on "mental illness", and how there are plenty out there who want to label gays as "mentally ill", and therefore deny them their 2A rights.  Just a week or so ago Joy Behar labeled Christians as "mentally ill".

so even though you and I may not have much in common, we have our 2A rights in common.

yes, there are plenty of people who do not understand what makes gays tick, me among them, but who if seriously engaged would, and do, support your 2A rights.

fair enough?
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: gerhard1 on February 21, 2018, 04:49:32 PM
i stand by every word i've typed or spoken.

i'm a Lifetime Benefactor NRA Member.  they do not tell me what to say or think.  i speak for myself.

i've been a NRA Member since the mid 1980s, and have read their American Rifleman every month since then (and some before I joined, as I would read my dad's magazines), and i have never read anything against gays, blacks, women, or any other group.  as i've posted elsewhere here, just last October Pete Brownell posted  in his President's column on how gun rights are rights for all.  you can google it and find it and read it for yourself.

this morning i read Erin Pallette's (sp?) FB post on "mental illness", and how there are plenty out there who want to label gays as "mentally ill", and therefore deny them their 2A rights.  Just a week or so ago Joy Behar labeled Christians as "mentally ill".

so even though you and I may not have much in common, we have our 2A rights in common.

yes, there are plenty of people who do not understand what makes gays tick, me among them, but who if seriously engaged would, and do, support your 2A rights.

fair enough?
Are you waiting for me to agree with you?          ;D
Title: Re: Friendly Dealers
Post by: Douglas on February 21, 2018, 06:24:26 PM
no, but if you do that's fine.

just getting my thoughts down so there is no mis-understanding.