Author Topic: Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly  (Read 1074 times)

CaseyCameron

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Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly
« on: November 16, 2016, 10:30:56 PM »
I had a back and forth with someone on guns.com that said marriage equality was made up from thin air. So I responded in a way that a fellow gun owner would understand.

I hope something here helps you in your conversations and always feel free to chime in.

This is the copy/paste:

Marriage equality didn't come out of thin air. It came out of treating people equally under the law as required by the 14th Amendment. So the court doesn't need to look for a specific enumeration. It takes the person or group of people etc in question to see if they are treated equally to others in the same situation.  So the court made a no-brainer decision. Our constitution was brilliantly written to take into account new and developing situations and evolving societies. Thank goodness in the 2nd Amendment they used the word "arms" rather than flintlock or musket.  Who was thinking of marriage equality 200 years ago for example? Probably the same amount of people that were thinking of an AR-15 with a scope and laser site. Thank goodness the 1st Amendment says "speech" and "press" not quill pen and scroll. So if someone thinks the marriage decision was wrongfully decided please be consistent in your views and kindly give up all firearms unless it was a common gun at the founding of our country. And please no rambling about it on facebook since that's not covered free speech considering you see the constitution as a static document rather than the more brilliantly worded document that it is framed in a way that encompasses changing times and new understandings.

As a gay man who believes in the 2nd Amendment it always amazes me to see who is consistent in their views of constitutional rights vs. those who pick what works for them and then suspends their own logic when it's someone they don't like seeking a right they don't care about or agree with. Both ends of the spectrum are guilty of this and for someone in my position of gay and gun owner I get to see the double standard every day. It is a good way to determine who is fair minded and who is not and who deserves my trust and who does not.

JohnB

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Re: Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2016, 06:31:03 AM »
A well stated bit of logic I will definitely be tucking away for future "Liberty moment" conversations.
Your vote is another cartridge in Liberty's rifle.

Pax

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Re: Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2016, 07:39:40 AM »
Well said!  Face to face I run into less issues, being a lesbian, especially an old one, I still benefit from that lingering bit of chivalry out there.  But in the written spaces we all occupy that goes out the window... do you mind if I use that (with attribution, of course)?

CaseyCameron

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Re: Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2016, 02:07:15 PM »
Of course!

VeganPilotMarty

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Re: Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2016, 08:14:00 PM »
We don't think of anyone being gay at the time of the writing of the constitution?  Perhaps Franklin or Jefferson was?  If anyone ever thought "If only ... " then I think they thought it way back when as well.

HuckleberryFun

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Re: Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2016, 11:19:17 AM »
We don't think of anyone being gay at the time of the writing of the constitution?  Perhaps Franklin or Jefferson was?  If anyone ever thought "If only ... " then I think they thought it way back when as well.

Franklin was an old lecher, and Jefferson liked his slave girls, but I'm sure there were some.
The law of averages demands it. John Hancock was awfully flamboyant, wasn't he? Such flair!

nfin8orbit

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Re: Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2016, 04:18:35 PM »
Yep. That is the way to express it to a person who is picking and choosing the amendments of the U.S. Constitution! Well done. Bravo.

Gwendolyn Patton

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Re: Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2016, 07:52:31 PM »
Man is not so much a rational animal as a rationalizing one. Man will create explanations for things that have no existence in fact. It's what enables Man to imagine beyond what he has to what he wants to have, but the other side of the coin is that Man makes spurious connections where he sees patterns that match. He also has an amazing ability to creatively "not see" true connections that are contradictory to what they've made up.

When someone has a challenge to their world view, until they have the opportunity to refactor their world, they react with fight or flight. Be patient with such people...but don't be their doormat.

CarlMillerPhotos

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Re: Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2017, 06:38:50 PM »
I was booted out of one of the AR15 related Facebook groups after a similar conversation. Someone looked at my profile, said, "I think he's a fag." I'm actually straight, but as I replied... "That's irrelevant. I'm here to talk about AR15s." 5 minutes later I realized I'd been booted from the group.

HuckleberryFun

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Re: Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2017, 11:33:42 AM »
Broadly speaking, I've found more comfortable acceptance by straight 2A gun people who know I'm gay than I find among gay people who know I have guns and support the Second Amendment.
There are always exceptions, though, like the old straight white guys interviewing me for a gun club membership: I figured I was in until it came out I'm gay..,then the temperature of the room dropped 20 degrees in an instant. I went from sure-thing to "well this is a social club".
There are dimwitted donkeys on both sides, but a shared interest/passion often overcomes that.

Douglas

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Re: Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2017, 06:17:20 PM »
i made a standing offer to take anyone shooting and show them the basics after Orlando last year.  i'm on Blazing Sword.  i've had one contact, i replied, and that was it.  my offer still stands.

i'm a married straight guy.  i don't have any gay friends.  don't know any even.  but if you want to learn the basics of firearms, i'll take you to the range and show you.  at my expense.  i'm not going to change what i believe, but i'm willing and able to show anyone the basics of firearms.

i don't know if you are going to get a better offer, but that's mine.

shooting an IDPA match tomorrow.  i presume everyone i know is straight, but i don't know, and they haven't brought it up.  it matters that you are a safe shooter and that you continue to improve.

Commission1888

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Re: Talking to fellow 2A'ers who aren't LGBT-friendly
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2017, 05:26:54 PM »
The key is sadly not the ideals, but the language. "Liberal" language or "socialist " language turns the brain off of many of the conservative 2a'er, so to combat this always frame the argument in the context of "rights" and "sovereignty of the individual". I've found if you do that you get much farther along than otherwise.