Author Topic: Friendly Dealers  (Read 820 times)

Douglas

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Re: Friendly Dealers
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2018, 10:53:39 AM »
No, I had seen it. And that has zero to do with homophobic attitudes among NRA members.

Iím sure, though, that their ad agency will find a suitable Dana Lezz or Colion Queer to speak ďon behalf ofĒ LGBTQ gun owners.

Seriously, if youíre happy with the NRA, by all means enjoy. I prefer alternatives. The organization is not about 2A as much as it is about making money. And its leadership is about darker things not in the national interest, in my opinion.

As I understand it, only 2 of 70-something board members are elected by the rank and file; the rest are industry stakeholders. And the majority surveyed favor reasonable gun control. Yet the leadership preaches the slippery-slope fallacy that any reasonable regulation is a violation of 2A.

Thatís a hot mess I donít want to support.

now that i have a little more time to type, i'll take these one at a time.

"And that has zero to do with homophobic attitudes among NRA members." - can you provide specific examples?  names, words, actions of individuals?  not just wave your hand in the direction of a bunch of "rednecks" or "southerners" and smear them all with an unearned insult that has not basis in fact.  doubt you can.  and if you can provide an example or two, that does not extend to the rest of the NRA membership without specific knowledge or each person you so wish to smear.

"Seriously, if youíre happy with the NRA, by all means enjoy. I prefer alternatives. The organization is not about 2A as much as it is about making money. And its leadership is about darker things not in the national interest, in my opinion." - the only thing the NRA is about is the 2A.  they say it boldly, over and over.  any money that the NRA "makes" goes towards defending the NRA. they hand out grants for shooting range development and improvement, they develop and provide training materials, they host various shooting competitions.  and i'm sure other things i'm not aware of.  as for the leadership, have you ever spoken with any of them?  what spoken or written materials can you cite that support your "darker things" smear?  none.  you are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to an opinion with no basis in fact.  i signed up long ago on Blazing Sword to provide anyone, anyone with free basic gun training.  won't cost you a dime.  so far, no takers in 18 months.  offer stands.  and that's from an NRA Life Member.  someone you think hates everyone not like him.  nice.

"As I understand it, only 2 of 70-something board members are elected by the rank and file; the rest are industry stakeholders. And the majority surveyed favor reasonable gun control. Yet the leadership preaches the slippery-slope fallacy that any reasonable regulation is a violation of 2A. " - there are 75 NRA board members, each serve a 3 year term, unpaid, with 25 positions expiring each year.  NRA members vote for board members each year.  I vote.  anyone can run for board membership, in compliance with the bylaws (available from the NRA if you ask).  Many board members are also active in the gun industry. duh.  they too want to protect the 2A from attack.  the NRA has never asked me, a long time Life Member, what i think about "reasonable gun control".  nor has anyone else.  and if you did, i'd ask you to define what you have in mind with "reasonable gun control" before i answer such a vague question.  As for "slippery slope fallacy", the NRA steadfastly defends the 2A.  propose what you think a "reasonable regulation" is, and we can discuss it.

so if you, or anyone else, wants to go shooting, i'll take you, at my entire cost, and we'll have a good time at the range, and hopefully, you'll learn something that day.

gerhard1

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Re: Friendly Dealers
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2018, 08:54:25 PM »
No, I had seen it. And that has zero to do with homophobic attitudes among NRA members.

Iím sure, though, that their ad agency will find a suitable Dana Lezz or Colion Queer to speak ďon behalf ofĒ LGBTQ gun owners.

Seriously, if youíre happy with the NRA, by all means enjoy. I prefer alternatives. The organization is not about 2A as much as it is about making money. And its leadership is about darker things not in the national interest, in my opinion.

As I understand it, only 2 of 70-something board members are elected by the rank and file; the rest are industry stakeholders. And the majority surveyed favor reasonable gun control. Yet the leadership preaches the slippery-slope fallacy that any reasonable regulation is a violation of 2A.

Thatís a hot mess I donít want to support.
Usually the 'slippery-slope' or 'camel's nose' argument is a logical fallacy; I agree with you there.  However, in the case of gun-control, it is not.  Why not?  Because the advocates of stricter gun laws say this themslevs.


Quote
"I'm convinced that we have to have federal legislation to build on. We're going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily -- given the political realities -- going to be very modest. Of course, it's true that politicians will then go home and say, 'This is a great law. The problem is solved.' And it's also true that such statements will tend to defuse the gun-control issue for a time. So then we'll have to strengthen that law, and then again to strengthen that law, and maybe again and again. Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice. Our ultimate goal -- total control of handguns in the United States -- is going to take time. My estimate is from seven to ten years. The problem is to slow down the increasing number of handguns sold in this country. The second problem is to get them all registered. And the final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition -- except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors -- totally illegal."
Nelson P. 'Pete' Shields, founder of Handgun Control, Inc.   The New Yorker, July 26, 1976
Quote
ďIn fact, the assault weapons ban will have no significant effect either on the crime rate or on personal security. Nonetheless, it is a good idea . . . . Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation.Ē
Charles Krauthammer (columnist), Washington Post, Apr. 5, 1996

Also, for your edification:
i'm not aware of any NRA position that even speaks about gays.

I don't know if they have an official policy statement, but they do have Chris Cheng as a national spokesperson.

Chris Cheng is a member of the Pink Pistols. I've talked with him, he's a seriously hoopy frood. He knows where his towel is and EVERYTHING. He was one of the winners on the Top Shot TV series, and now he's an NRA spokesperson.


I'm going to chime in here. Not everyone in the shooting world is crazy about the NRA. But the claims that it's packed with homophobes slavering to kill us all or something is simply nonsense. I'm good friends with one of the chief legislative counsels at NRA-ILA. We do good work together, and he swears up and down that the ancient incidents of anti-gay rhetoric are long gone, and there's NOTHING in their POLICY that is in any way anti-gay.

Oh, and Uncle Ted Nugent has called me "his favorite lesbian" TWICE on the radio. I got the recording to prove it. And he's on their BOARD.


As for "progressive gun manufacturers"...seriously, that's a non-starter. The progressives want to amend the Constitution to take away the 2nd Amendment completely. The progressives want to put a prog in the Supreme Court so they can overturn Heller and McDonald. This isn't speculation. Their candidates have SAID SO. Repeatedly. On the record.

So why would a gun manufacturer support them? It'd be like a Torah publisher donating to Stormfront, or a game food store donating to PETA. It's against their interests. If you're waiting to buy a gun from a progressive manufacturer, you're going to be waiting a long time. So take the advice, buy a gun, and use it wisely and responsibly. Don't worry about the politics. Behave as YOUR beliefs require you to behave, and don't worry so much about the other guy.
I do hope that doing that was kosher, but my (and presumably that of Douglas as well) point  is that this does not sound like the NRA is homophobic.

Douglas

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Re: Friendly Dealers
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2018, 01:25:09 PM »
i stand by every word i've typed or spoken.

i'm a Lifetime Benefactor NRA Member.  they do not tell me what to say or think.  i speak for myself.

i've been a NRA Member since the mid 1980s, and have read their American Rifleman every month since then (and some before I joined, as I would read my dad's magazines), and i have never read anything against gays, blacks, women, or any other group.  as i've posted elsewhere here, just last October Pete Brownell posted  in his President's column on how gun rights are rights for all.  you can google it and find it and read it for yourself.

this morning i read Erin Pallette's (sp?) FB post on "mental illness", and how there are plenty out there who want to label gays as "mentally ill", and therefore deny them their 2A rights.  Just a week or so ago Joy Behar labeled Christians as "mentally ill".

so even though you and I may not have much in common, we have our 2A rights in common.

yes, there are plenty of people who do not understand what makes gays tick, me among them, but who if seriously engaged would, and do, support your 2A rights.

fair enough?

gerhard1

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Re: Friendly Dealers
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2018, 04:49:32 PM »
i stand by every word i've typed or spoken.

i'm a Lifetime Benefactor NRA Member.  they do not tell me what to say or think.  i speak for myself.

i've been a NRA Member since the mid 1980s, and have read their American Rifleman every month since then (and some before I joined, as I would read my dad's magazines), and i have never read anything against gays, blacks, women, or any other group.  as i've posted elsewhere here, just last October Pete Brownell posted  in his President's column on how gun rights are rights for all.  you can google it and find it and read it for yourself.

this morning i read Erin Pallette's (sp?) FB post on "mental illness", and how there are plenty out there who want to label gays as "mentally ill", and therefore deny them their 2A rights.  Just a week or so ago Joy Behar labeled Christians as "mentally ill".

so even though you and I may not have much in common, we have our 2A rights in common.

yes, there are plenty of people who do not understand what makes gays tick, me among them, but who if seriously engaged would, and do, support your 2A rights.

fair enough?
Are you waiting for me to agree with you?          ;D

Douglas

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Re: Friendly Dealers
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2018, 06:24:26 PM »
no, but if you do that's fine.

just getting my thoughts down so there is no mis-understanding.